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DB2 rebuild: Here we go again!
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Bud977



Joined: 03 Mar 2013
Posts: 525
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know the original discs were zinc plated. I've never seen that before.

Cast iron discs rust as a matter of course. When restoring, I hit them with the sandblaster or wire wheel and that's it. The come out looking like new. Dry them out if they get wet by going for a ride.

Don't know how long that zinc plating will last. They look good at the moment though.
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zinc plating is a "passivation" process like anodising.....same process was used on all the bolts and rear disc...whenever I've fitted a new rear disc...like on DB2, DB4 and Vdue....its only lasted a couple of hundred miles and its all gone....does look nice though on new discs....for those that dont ride the bikes and just have them as ornaments....
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Bud977



Joined: 03 Mar 2013
Posts: 525
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good 2bims. You learn something every day. I've now filed passivation in my memory banks.
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bud977 wrote:
Very good 2bims. You learn something every day. I've now filed passivation in my memory banks.


Happy if you can remember....as I often forget the phrase for the process
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welshlamb



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 592
Location: South Wales , Nr. Abergavenny

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this week I FINALLY got my forks back from a full service and a cosmetic once over. They should have been picked up several weeks ago but delays at the rebuilders and lock down at the coaters meant I only just got them back.

Recoated due to the bottom gold section being quite chipped. The powdercoat is a fine metallic and although its not identical to the OE paint finish it should be more durable. In the flesh its a close match.



The stickers on the rebound/compression adjusters were just about illegible so I decided to sacrifice them and polish these parts. Have stamped the tops so I remember which leg is which but I may add a + and - before I forget that as well.



The black section od the fork sliders was also recoated (not at my cost) as when they outgassed the bottom section the OE'black' finish turned a very light grey!

Whilst looking at loads of images of DB2 fork legs trying to see what a finish should look like I noted quite a variety in both the machined finish (smooth to noticeable 'ridges') and colour. It seems that whilst mainly a dark grey/black that the legs on DB2Js were a lighter grey. (like yours Brian) Maybe thats becaus ethe DB2Js were all from a shorter production run? In any case another example of 'what is original' when it comes to Bimotas!


DB2

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DB2J
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welshlamb



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 592
Location: South Wales , Nr. Abergavenny

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies for the long absence from this thread and its past time to catch up with goings on in my garage.

A combination of guilt at my slow progress, pulling my finger out and of course spending even more over my budget has FINALLY moved things along on my DB2 Half Fairing (#00114)rebuild.

So...first off let's attach frame and swinging arm to engine!



A bit of a bind to do single handed but with 2 off new nylon spacing washers in place (see separate thread) and bearings greased, the axle slid in with only the slightest of persuading from the dead blow hammer.

Then came the fun of installing the 2 off axle pinch bolts!



With the front sprocket removed there are two positions where you can just about get an H7 hex drive (Yes I know no kit has H7 hex socket as standard!) onto the bolt to tighten it. It also helps if you screw the bolt in as far as you can by hand and then using just the socket to give the vital extra space to get the socket and torque wrench into position! The designer of this part didn't consider easy maintenance for sure!

No tightening torque given in manual for this bolt. General for an M10 bolt is 50Nm. General concensus on Ducati forums for their similar pinch bolts is 30 Nm, but thats an alloy arm. Given its a pinch bolt with an open gap I opted for something in-between at 40Nm. GIven that the axle was a very snug fit I'm happy with that but will keep it on a maintenance list for any signs of slacking off. (The bolts, not me!)

You can also get to the bolt from this position if you can drop the swinging arm down far enough. Still talking minimal clearance to get the torque wrench and bit in place though.



Having taken a break and walked to the other side of the bike ..... you find there is NO position where you can access the bolt from the top.



However I found the solution using this combination of torque wrench, short 'wobble' extension bar (to allow slight misalignment) and then the H7 socket.... obvious! This was with the engne still in its stand from rebuild time. without that a straight extension bar would probably do.



with the swing arm raised I could then get at the bolt as shown below
.


After that getting the main frame back and installing the (rebuilt) rear shock was a doddle.



Next steps are to add yokes and front forks (above photo of yokes was just a trial fit) and get some wheels on before getting the lady off her wooden blocks and standing on her own feet, so to speak.
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welshlamb



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 592
Location: South Wales , Nr. Abergavenny

PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2022 11:48 pm    Post subject: wheels. Reply with quote

Although I got the OE wheels re powder coated (and the F****d cush drive pins replaced) I came across a better solution.....a pair of period Marvic Penta mag wheels, they even came of a DB2!

Naturally they were in Japan. However a very nice guy let them be put in with his bike shipment and after a wait for shipping there was a rendezvous in Southampton and they were mine (They travelled over with a 'bevel' 900SS so were in good company)



The rear had the disc and cush drive with it which was a bonus.

Not the light weight Marvic cush drive but not a big deal as the extra weight of the OE is near the hub.



I took the wheels to Steve at TPCS near Swindon who specialises in mag wheel refurbishment (cars and bikes). A pleasure to do business with. wheels were turned around in less than 3 weeks and he sent me photos at each stage of refurb. All at a very reasonable cost.

As an aside, many of the best guys I have come across in the course of this restoration are time served (Machinist, wheel refurb, Carb rebuild, polishing etc) and getting on a bit in years (pot calling kettle I know!) and you do wonder who will provide the resto services in years to come? take a look at the work in their workshops and you'll see some big £ teams and individuals entrust these guys with work, so definitely good enough for me.

stages as reported by Steve were ........
-Chemical strip
-Light blast clean (after masking!)
-Dye penetrant check for any cracks
-Chromate coating
-Powder coating


Blasted


crack detection and chromated


and finally coated.

Back home and with the discs, brakes and tyres fitted they ended up like this. RESULT!





now showing are the Marvic stickers that the factory kindly provided later on!


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Last edited by welshlamb on Mon Feb 28, 2022 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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welshlamb



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 592
Location: South Wales , Nr. Abergavenny

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next up the engine!



The original engine was typically looking a bit rough but as far as I know was running at Centrepoint in Aus (they posted a video of it running) and had oil in it. Cosmetically a typical (tired looking) 25 year old Duc and apart from The CF clutch cover and some dubious anodised fittings looked standard.

My plan was for a strip down and then
-improved gas flow through head (especially intakes)
-High Comp pistons
-Decrease rotating mass (lighter flywheel and billet clutch)
-ST2 or SS900Ie cams
-FCR39 flatsides.

....and attend to cosmetics!

Oddly enough when I started looking for camshafts people were asking £500/600 for ST2s (if you could find any!) and only a little less for the SS900ie versions.

However I saw a complete SS900ie engine in Japan and was the sole bidder on it at £350. It came over in another bike shipment from Japan (no not with the wheels)





The engine provided me with
High level oil cooler and hoses
Camshafts
Belt tensioner pulleys
Ignition timing cover and oil filler plug
Spare cam covers

I sold on the remaining engine to somone and covered my outlay on the engine. I could have potentially used the whole engine but I wanted to keep the engine details as per the reg documents and also the external oil lines of the original. Sometimes plans do work out.

Next post will detail what happened to the engine rebuild (I hope)
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovely work as always....and loving the look of the engine and nickel gold bolts etc etc....And I love the wheels also ralph................BUT.................oh yeh...............theres a but.......................................RED????RERERERRREEEEEd .red????

mIGHTY BRAVE DECISION.....Have you done a mock up of how the whole bike will look?
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TVRRICH



Joined: 05 Feb 2016
Posts: 211
Location: Coventry UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update Ralph, looking good
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welshlamb



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 592
Location: South Wales , Nr. Abergavenny

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2bims wrote:
Lovely work as always....and loving the look of the engine and nickel gold bolts etc etc....And I love the wheels also ralph................BUT.................oh yeh...............theres a but.......................................RED????RERERERRREEEEEd .red????

mIGHTY BRAVE DECISION.....Have you done a mock up of how the whole bike will look?


I thought this might provoke reaction. White wheels would be a safe and no doubt good looking choice...HOWEVER....





THIS was my inspiration and still is ; the only 'official' Moto Corse DB2.

for the overall look a lot depends on main body colours/design and overall balance. I have done several alternative schemes and my final choice will NOT be a variation of the standard scheme but quite different. Folks will have to wait a while to see that. Have chosen a painter and asked him to cast an eye over the scheme and he liked it, so probably just minor tweeking left there.

Currently I am test fitting the aftermarket belly pan and top fairing and drilling all the neccessary bolts holes etc. Only get one chance drilling holes so I'm taking it carefully! Once thats done I can send pieces off to painters to get in their queue
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welshlamb



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 592
Location: South Wales , Nr. Abergavenny

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I sold on the remaining engine to somone and covered my outlay on the engine. I could have potentially used the whole engine but I wanted to keep the engine details as per the reg documents and also the external oil lines of the original. Sometimes plans do work out.

Next post will detail what happened to the engine rebuild (I hope)


As per above I swapped over a few bits
Clutch cover, ignition timing cover and oil filler plug and the high level oil cooler and hoses (incl the cam cover/bracket needed for mounting) Note the FE 900ss had the high oil cooleras standard. For me it looks better and with the much better cooling with the half fairing fitted (20 deg lower sic some test reports I've seen) the minimal reduction in surface area compared to the original cooler isn't an issue)




Stuck the engine in a workstand prevent damage in garage/transport/workshop and drove it down to Richard Llewellyn at Louigi Moto (twixt Bath and Bristol) together with other bits to be installed.
( I had earlier taken off the cam covers/ clutch cover and inlet manifolds for cerakoting and the clutch/ignition side casings that I prepped and sprayed myself, a dark brown...Fiat/Lancia colour I believe!)

Very pleased with the cerakote. (There are now loads of folk offering it but its not like spraying paint and vital to carry out the correct degrease/outgass/blasting prep to get a good finish. Especially true of any oil contaminated parts that may need several cycles to clean! Unfortunately he has now packed in Cerakoting to take over his family run cafe. (a nice guy who did a lot of community support work out of the cafe during the lockdowns!)

Louigi's is a centre of all things Ducati and Richard builds and races a Pantah 500 and 750 in classic classes (and a tasty 999!) as well as servicing and race bike prep.

The bores unfortunately needed re Nikasil coating to suit the new J&E pistons (904cc) and despite Richards experience and facilities one of the cylinder studs sheared during removal (its an early motor so brittle studs and many instances of them shearing so best to replace if motor is apart) Had to spark erode it out. Now replaced with 748 studs.

Headwork was done by Richard himself. with aim of straightening the inlet as much as the casting allows. Apparently the head castings are quite variable in their form and finish.

The SS900ie cams were installed and dialled in , and the SS600 flywheel fitted (MUCH lighter) along with the alloy clutch basket and new clutch plates (friction and pressure) and springs.

Of course all of this was subject to COVID interruptions, with workshop closures and staff absences... so suffice it to say the build took several months longer than forecast.

Eventually though I was able to collect the motor (and the very detailed invoice!)





Back home I'm very happy with the result so far. Proof of the pudding etc won't be until motor is running and I see what the riding experience is. A stock 900ss motor is about 83 HP but that translates to about 73RWHP for a NEW motor. It will be interesting to see where I get to with this engine with the flatsides and a changed exhaust to come.
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well...that is a brave move....Have you the right grade sunglasses when it is finally finished?...and will you be warning oncoming drivers etc?...So...the Half fairing bike will be yours and similar to this?..evidently without the moto corse end cans of course...teehee
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welshlamb



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 592
Location: South Wales , Nr. Abergavenny

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:11 pm    Post subject: damned exhausts Reply with quote

The bike came with a modified exhaust utilising standard header pipes but with no 2-1 section and twin carbon cans connected seperately to the headers with link pipes.



post a pic

However this makes it a very tight fit as the pipes go through the swinging arm and the RHS link pipe runs very close to the rear shock reservoir. I decided therefore to use these parts on my DB2J-750 bike.

I did look at getting a complete custom exhaust system fabricated and found a great craftsman (visited workshop and and saw his work) to produce a system in 41.2mm OD stainless but unfortunately, at about £900 JUST for the headers and 2-1, I had to rule that one out . ( I'm still looking at some custom exhaust cans though as they are the heaviest bits of the system and well away from bikes CofG...details hopefully to follow)

So could I use the original headers and 2-1?

Fair to say it didnt look promising.


Front Cyl Header


Rear Cyl header

after a LOT of hand and machine attention with various wet and dry and polishing mops this was about as good as I could get





Not bad but no cigar! Defo not good enough for this 'project' bike . I tried S&T plating near Bristol (well known in car and bike classic circles) but they were unwilling to try polishing the pitting out and chroming wasn't an option either (not that I wanted that!)

BCP managed to supply a NOS rear header but the part supplied for the front header was in fact for a DB2J (wrongly labelled bin location in his store) and and would not fit so had to be sent back (FYI he has no DB2 front headers but has 2-1 and I think rear Cyl header)

So now I had a crap front header (see abov), a NOS rear cyl header (but with a different finish on it to my other bikes) and a used but 5-6 out of 10 2-1 section that came from the DB2 J. three different degrees of distress!

Then came my lucky break. I found a guy in Bristol who is an airframe certified Tig welder and has been polishing metal for 35 years. Works on his own in a grimy workshop with very robust last century linishing/polishing machines.

The guys work is EPIC! He is trusted with very valuable polishing work for high end classic cars and was working on a complete set of fittings for a RIVA speedboat (££££) when I visited. Interestingly when he checked the 3 sections of my system with a magnet they behaved very differently and in his opinion were three very different grades of steel... its Italian, Its Bimota; why should I be surprised!

10 days later (and for a reasonable price) I picked these up .





I love the satin sheen but know that in use its going to be hard/impossible to keep like that so may yet go for some coating. If I do I'll let you know.
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welshlamb



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 592
Location: South Wales , Nr. Abergavenny

PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please note, this thread isnt a chronological story of the restoration but is trying to highlight some of the issues I have found on my travels (I refuse to use the 'J' word!) Hope they are of some use/informative for forum browsers.
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