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DB10 Starting

 
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glened



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 135
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 7:19 pm    Post subject: DB10 Starting Reply with quote

Hi everyone, those that have read the post re the wheels will be aware of our recent trip to Scotland, however it very nearly did not happen. I have had the battery on an optimiser charger over the winter season, went out on the Monday before we went to Scotland. The bike started OK and ran lovely. The day of the trip up at 06:30 (really excited...) to pack the bike, get the kit ready and to meet to meet the gang at Lancaster services for 08:30. Went out to the bike it turned over but did not start, tried several times..... Quite a few expletives later, had to unpack the bike tried another battery no joy. Bike starting to smell of being flooded, removed spark plugs, rear cylinder plug was wet. Spent the next three hours cleaning plugs and trying to get more charge in the battery, eventually it burst into life!. I met the gang at Tebay truckstop. I have the following questions? if you can help..

1: I think I have heard about some high efficiency / low resistance starter leads does any one on the forum know anything about them?

2: The Battery is a YUASA YT12B-BS is there any other battery that would be better suited i.e. lithium?

3: When trundling around Scotland I collected a few stone chips on the frame. Does anyone know the RAL code for the colour of red used on the frame or where to get touch up paint from.

I will try and get some pics of the wheels on the system tonight
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Bimota DB10, Suzuki TS250, Kawasaki Z1A, T120 Trton, AJS650, KTM690 Duke
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spike on here (with his DB5R) is the only one I know thats fitted one of those hiGrade copper cable kits to his bike...and swears by it cranking it like its hot....

This is the off the shelf stuff...but is specific per bike for lengths etc....Spike gave him lengths and they made one up specific to his bike...so thats starter motor to solenoid, solenoid to battery and the earth tag....or could be made up by anyone really with access to right cables...Have heard good reports elsewhere also (especially on Large CC V-twins...strangely always Duc or Harley motors...)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160545483140?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

What position/orientation is your battery fitted?
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Bud977



Joined: 03 Mar 2013
Posts: 525
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fitted a lithium battery to my KTM 300EXC and it solved all the cold starting problems. With the standard battery, the KTMs are well known for not starting. You have to use the kickstarter when cold, then you can use the electric start as a 're-starter'.

The replacement battery had much higher Cold Cranking Amps, which is what did the trick. It now starts better than ever and starts with a single press when cold.

You can buy lithium batteries in the same physical size as the stock batteries - a '12' in your case. See if you can find one that has the much higher CCA.

The good thing about lithium batteries is that they hold their charge when not being used. The dirt bike can sit there for months and still start.

The bad thing about lithiums is that they can catch on fire if the charging circuit overcharges them. This is then a chemical reaction fire and very difficult to put out. The risk is low, but it is there.
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glened



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 135
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Battery orientation is looking down on the battery

Connections to the R/hand side of the frame

Positive to the front nearest the tank and negative to the rear

Thanks for both the replies, I was thinking about a lithium battery, however the location of the battery to the exhaust system could be an issue that with the reliability of the charging circuit.

I will investigate further.
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Bimota DB10, Suzuki TS250, Kawasaki Z1A, T120 Trton, AJS650, KTM690 Duke
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Orientation...i was thinking more its position....fitted lying down, on its side....rotated through 90 degree etc or just plain bolt upright with terminals atop....DB6 its lying on its front face terminals at the bottom, under the tank...>DB5 its fallen over 90 degrees on its narrow side...terminals on its side....only saying coz I'm arguing with MDS batteries at the moment....bought one 3 months ago and its gone and leaked...same Yuasa YT12B-BS...same as I took out that had been fine for 6 years before it gave up the ghost.......I've used Odyssey Extreme Gel batteries on my KTM and never had a problem , hold charge well...high Cold Cranking Amps...first one lasted nearly 9 years......no issues with fire as far as I know...issue is though finding something that will fit the box/space that Bimota have left...as I imagine there aint much space around it....Standard battery is 150mm x 69mm x 130mm tall...CCA for the Yuasa is said to be 215....fairly standard size...for a Ducati...but limits choice unless youre going for lithium...and then you need a new charger also....
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glened



Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 135
Location: Lancashire

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve, Re orientation, sorry for the mistake.

The battery sits under the seat on its side with the connections to the top under the seat, as you suspected there is not much room. I have followed your link to Motorelectric site and I have sent them an email requesting lead time. I think I will get the leads for now and see what difference they make. I will try and get across to see you soon, if for nothing more than a crsh course in posting pictures.

Regards Glen
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The motoelectric conversion does seem to make sense when you read their blurb...and I've heard good reports...and certainly the standard Duc cabling used by Bimota is just cheap steel terminal, ring connecters and not true copper........Has your bike got the evo engine? i.e. only one spark plug per cylinder and not the DS Dual spark plug per cylinder?? Theres a nasty earth connection on the LHS of the motor where a couple of wires go....basically theres a holes and threaded bolt with a crush washer that goes into the engine...and in there screws a steel bolt that holds a couple of earth tags....steel into alloy...and this area is famed for corroding, differing metals etc...is a known warranty issue on Multistradas when they dont start...

If replacing with another Yuasa battery...which are now only 40-45gbp on ebay...I'm now being recommended by Yuasa...that in situations where the battery is NOT located bolt upright and vertical...and on DB5/6 and DB10 they aint....that when you attach the acid pack to the battery...that comes separate with new batteries...dont jiggle the pack...just let it slowly work its way into the battery...then you are supposed to leave the battery idle for 30mins to one hour before putting the sealing caps on and charging up overnight...for the acid to form into a gel......for batteries that end up lying down or on their side....Yuasa now recommend leaving tops off for 24 hrs before sealing with the 6 cell cap strip ...and then charging...to allow the acid more time to turn to gel...so that they dont leak....mine leaked all over the battery box stripping its paint...grrghhh...and corroding the terminal...leaking from one of the 2 sealing valves...still fighting with MDS for a replacement as their instructions given when the battery was delivered made no mention of this...just said leave for one hour, seal and charge....Grrghhh....casing all deformed as the reg/rec and battery charger has tried to keep its power up...but failed...warping the casing.....fortunately the carbon fibre battery cover kept any acid away from the precious carbon fibre painted fairing....
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Jonny B Bad



Joined: 05 Dec 2009
Posts: 555
Location: NE London

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject: DB10 starting Reply with quote

A Ballistic 12 cell Lithium battery will put the smile back on your face. Around £200 and you can now buy them in the UK.
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Optimisers always split opinion.
I have an Odyssey battery on my DB4 and it specifically stated on a sticker when I bought it that it should not be left on an optimiser charger for more than 72 hours continuously . I also know people that have returned batteries within their guarantee period to be told they are not covered if left on a optimiser all the time.

On the battery front the Odyssey are very good batteries but heavy, lithium ion, I have found go for the biggest that will fit in the battery box and not the one that says its the same power as the original but half the size.
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2bims



Joined: 03 Apr 2010
Posts: 7289

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vort28 wrote:
Optimisers always split opinion.
I have an Odyssey battery on my DB4 and it specifically stated on a sticker when I bought it that it should not be left on an optimiser charger for more than 72 hours continuously . I also know people that have returned batteries within their guarantee period to be told they are not covered if left on a optimiser all the time.

On the battery front the Odyssey are very good batteries but heavy, lithium ion, I have found go for the biggest that will fit in the battery box and not the one that says its the same power as the original but half the size.


The battery on your DB4 deserves a "lifetime Achievement" award for its constant due diligence and annoyance to the neighbours.....crank crank crank crank....continue for 10 minutes....crank crank crank splutter....crank crank...come back later....another ten mins of crank crank crank...and not a sign of it giving up its thankless task of starting your DB4.....When I've seen you try to start it...I thought it was the National Grid that had telephoned asking for you to top up the Network with a spare 5,000 megawatts...... Laughing
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vort28



Joined: 22 Mar 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Northwest , UK

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK , so the DB4 takes a bit of starting ( when it starts you know about it , well, as do all the neighbours within a square mile !!) , and YES the stamina of an Odyssey battery is beyond any other I have used.
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