Bimota Forum

[biturbo]

Since it is mounted on my bike I did not understand if turning left or right fuel mixture becomes rich or lean and how with every click of adjustment.
thanks.

Thanks

[SB8R Tuner]

It all depends on which map you have in your ecu.
You have 9 clicks on the fuel trimmer.

Starting with the knob turned all the way counter clockwise, the setting are; -20%, -15%, -10%, -5%, Center Click 0%, +5%, +10%, +15%, +20%.

Those settings are for the SB8_6_14 map. The SB8K_9 map is the same except for one value, the -15% in the SB8_6_14 map is -14% in the SB8K_9 map.

[biturbo]

Ok I've never adjusted the trimmer, was set by the previous owner at - 5 ;for arrow carbon filter and sport filter what would be the best setting?

[biturbo]

different calibrations of the trimmer are all engine rpm and at all angles of rotation engine throttle bodies?

[sb8rs]

My Suggestion would be to remove the "trimmer" and have a power commander fitted. A big expenses I know, this is why if you ever thought about buying an SB8 you should always ensure it has one fitted or factor in the cost of one.
The reason for this is that the "trimmer" changes the fuelling throughout the whole of the rev range.
In other words if you need it rich to start, it will still be rich at high revs. Likewise if you have it lean to start, it will be lean at high revs!
A power commander (or similar unit) will be able to be adjusted to give the right fuelling at the right revs.
These "trimmers" were used before motorcycle manufacturers truly understood fuel injection and to hide poor fuelling etc.
As you know "we" do all of Bimota's R&D anyway.
Plus the fact I do not know how I rode my Sb8rs until I had a power commander fitted. It is most definitely a bike changer.

[SB8R Tuner]

To answer your question Biturbo, There are two tables that work in conjunction with the Fuel Trimmer. The first table is the one I already told you about. The second table uses throttle position with a multiplier. It is only a 1D table, so it does not use rpm. You have five throttle positions with a multiplier that changes the amount of fuel trim as per throttle position. This table from the factory is set at 1.0 for all throttle positions, so it has no effect on the amount of fuel trimming as per throttle position.

You ask which setting on the fuel trimmer would work best for your setup? I have no idea, because the fuel maps from the factory are junk!! The fuel curves I ended up with after dyno tuning my SB8R are nowhere close to the factory maps.

As far as what SB8RS stated about the fuel trimmer, I beg to differ. The fuel trimmer is a tool too help with fine tuning the ecu. The engineers knew exactly what they were doing when they implemented it. Maybe SB8RS just doesn't know how to use it correctly, so that is why he thinks you should get rid of it. I say keep it! I have my trimmer table programed in 1% increments, 3 leaner and 5 richer.

Personally I would stay away from the power commander if all possible. The power commander CANNOT correct all the problems with the ecu calibrations like reprogramming the ecu. On top of that, the power commander is always one step behind the ecu. With a V-Twin it is even more important to have the ecu tuned correctly. I can reprogram the ecu if that is what you would prefer.

[Evilchicken0]

Who didn't see that one coming
_________________
Don't read everything you believe

[sb8rs]

Hi SB8 tuner
I had my PC 3 fitted some 10 years ago now. Previous to that I did have a "trimmer" fitted.
The PC was a massive improvement on the trimmer.
At this time we could not have the ecu mapped because no one had the capability to do it. If you now have the capability to do this, it is a major step forward.
However we do need to look at a few factors like costs and logistics.
1 trimmer, I do not know how much one is but if is more than £50 someone is making a killing.
2 Power Commander and set up £500?
3 ECU re mapping?
Other factors are
1 capability, how many people have this?
2 logistics, where are these people and do they only need the ecu or the bike.
Once you have put all these factors together it is then a personal choice

[Evilchicken0]

Performance Bikes Magazine are doing a Suzuki TLR 1000 as a project at the moment. I had a chat to Mark White (M+M Motorcycles) who's doing most of the work. The engine has turned out to be a TLS so the cams and valves are a little different but they'll use a PC 5 on it, Dynojet will have some involvement so there could be a starting map for the SB8. Ultimately they plan to run the R exhaust cams in both intake and exhaust.
Mark can also flash ECU's - he did his Crossplane R1 for the mag recently.

This debate really comes down to Cost Vs Perfomance = Value

Most people ride these bikes on the road so any performance gains between the two systems are probably unoticable.

So it's probably a cost thing
The cost of the install into a ECU could be comparable to a PC3 / 5 install at a garge and they probably both need a few dyno runs to fine tune them, so that's comparable too.
A map is going to be much cheaper than a PC3 or 5 because you're not buying hardware ... so what ... about £100 ???
_________________
Don't read everything you believe

[SB8R Tuner]

SB8RS and Evilchicken, you both have valid points.

SB8RS
As far as trimmer costs, I have seen a couple of the factory ones on Ebay go for over $150us. The one I have came with the bike as did Biturbos'.

The reason ecu mapping is the BEST solution for the SB8R is because of the many parameters that need to be changed to make the bike run like it should. Other than changing the fuel and ignition curves, tables such as, cranking fuel, fuel trimmer, pre-injection, accelerator pump function, Fuel and ignition table breakpoints,injector battery offset and injector phase all have been changed to make the bike perform for the better.

If you would like, contact Bob at Bimota Spirit, http://www.bimotaspirit.com, I just tuned a SB8R for one of his customers and I understand he is more than pleased with the way the bike runs.

As far as logistics. I only need the ecu and throttle bodies sent to me. The last time, I used DHL for shipping to Italy.

Evilchicken0
PBM's TL project sounds cool, but I don't understand why they would want to use the R's exhaust cams for the intake. If there using the stock suzuki ecu for the test, the map they will create for the PC wouldn't work for the SB8R ecu. Difference being the throttle bodies are WAY bigger on the SB8R and the stock Suzuki ecu uses two injectors per cylinder verses only one for the SB8R. Not to mention the fuel pressure is different also.

Cost Vs Performance? Is there such a thing with owning a Bimota? Come on folks, these bikes are not the usual run of the mill motorcycles!! If you want something that is going to be cheap, buy something cheap!! Bimota's are not cheap to maintain or modify. That being said, for me to reflash the ecu is not going to be cheap either. I've spent a ton of time, over four years, getting everything figured out. If you want to know how much it would cost, send me a PM.

This thread has been highjacked enough. Biturbo asked about the workings and settings of the fuel trimmer and I believe I have answered the question better than anyone else could. If there needs to be a discussion about the pro's and con's of reflasing the ecu over installing a PC, then start another thread. IMO

I hope this answers all your questions about the fuel trimmer Biturbo!!

[Evilchicken0]

I couldn't swear to Performance Bikes using exhaust cams, they might be inlets. I guess they'll have a longer dwell (is that the word ?) or the lift is higher. I've seen it done on other engines, I've got a Yamaha 600 4TV with an inlet cam from a 3HE used as a exhaust ... I think it's reprofiled though.
I think you can buy Performance Bikes as a pdf online.

As I said I think the point of all of this is
Cost Vs Perfomance = Value

Although I've no doubt reflashing the ECU is better than a PC it's not significantly better to justify the expense. Most people just want the bikes to ride on the road or an occational trackday so getting the bike to fuel right is good enough. Any more money can go on suspension and light wheels.
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Don't read everything you believe

[sb8rs]

Sb8 tuner.
Just to satisfy myself, can you please tell me how much your last SB8 ECU tune up was?

[sb8rs]

SB8 tuner
Any news on a price yet?

[Evilchicken0]

The new Performance Bikes mag is out ( for subscribers ). They fit their TL with an M4 race pipe, PC 5 K+N filter and dyno time, which includes a new map. The total cost is £1716 the pipe is £1160.
They get 7.4 HP and 6 lbft torque the graph looks smoother and holds on at the top end for longer.
They found the ram air system doesnt do much (1bhp)
They'd fitted the new pipe but then took the top of the airbox off which is where the 7.4 HP showed up. Their bike is now 120bhp and 76 lbs ft ... this is a TLS engine in a TLR bike a SB8 is different.

The Mag is available on ipad and android from Apple Newsstand and Google Play theyre on facebook too.
_________________
Don't read everything you believe

[sb8rs]

My 8rs has 126 ATRW.
Modifications are larger air box, free flowing air filter, standard exhausts but with free flowing end cans. Plus of course a PC3.
More important the the actual bhp is the way it delivers the power / torque. It has a very flat torque curve and when I first rode it after the mods I said that it now felt like a "Honda". Plus the fact, on average; delivers nearly 50 mpg.