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Jaguar
Joined: 15 Sep 2017 Posts: 268 Location: Albany NY
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Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:38 pm Post subject: Ethanol Fuel |
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I know it is something to be avoided, if possible.
BUT
How do the tanks on Bimota hold up to the modern fuels?
Specifically asking about my new SB6R.
Thanks |
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Jonny B Bad
Joined: 05 Dec 2009 Posts: 555 Location: NE London
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:43 pm Post subject: Ethanol |
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The quick answer is “badly”! The ethanol absorbs water, as we know & the combined mixture, which is acidic, sinks to the bottom of the tank, where it starts eating away at the tank. As the fuel passes through the carbs it deposits a paste in the throat of the carb, downstream of the throttle, which
blocks the bypass holes and makes for erratic idling. The tank also starts to swell, as it absorbs the ethanol/water, so that it becomes a struggle to put the carbon battery cover back on.
Needless to say, it’s important to use an additive that addresses the worst effects of ethanol, particularly if the bike sits for a few weeks between outings. _________________ What, Jonny's gone! |
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Jonny B Bad
Joined: 05 Dec 2009 Posts: 555 Location: NE London
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Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:43 pm Post subject: Ethanol |
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The quick answer is “badly”! The ethanol absorbs water, as we know & the combined mixture, which is acidic, sinks to the bottom of the tank, where it starts eating away at the tank. As the fuel passes through the carbs it deposits a paste in the throat of the carb, downstream of the throttle, which
blocks the bypass holes and makes for erratic idling. The tank also starts to swell, as it absorbs the ethanol/water, so that it becomes a struggle to put the carbon battery cover back on.
Needless to say, it’s important to use an additive that addresses the worst effects of ethanol, particularly if the bike sits for a few weeks between outings. _________________ What, Jonny's gone! |
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Ray916MN
Joined: 29 Apr 2015 Posts: 71 Location: Orono, MN
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:43 am Post subject: |
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unlike Ducati plastic tanks (or for that matter Aprilia), the Acerbis produced plastic tanks on Bimotas seem to tolerate ethanol reasonably well. They seem to perform like dirtbike tanks and don't swell or distort as best as I can tell. |
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2bims
Joined: 03 Apr 2010 Posts: 7289
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Yay and Nay to that Ray.....All of my "period" Bimotas....Db1...DB2...DB4 are all Ascerbis and not been a problem......always used 97 or 99 grade fuel...BUT...the "E5" and "E10" stickers have appeared all over my usual petrol station pumps...meaning 5% and 10% by volume ethanol.....EU directives by them over here now...
Later stuff...DB5/6/7 etc...I havent had issues with either...BUT....one friend removed his DB6 tank over winter and left it full of fuel...possibly cheap fuel...it wouldn't fit the mounts at the back when he tried to put it back on...it had swelled in length around half an inch....He said "What do I do?"....drain it...leave off back vented and hopefully...just hopefully....it will shrink back.....Ducati tech boys are advising this on the latest Ducatis already...as its happening to the latest new batch of Ducs also.... |
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GeeKay
Joined: 29 May 2009 Posts: 1767 Location: West Yorkshire
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Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:01 am Post subject: |
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2bims wrote: |
Later stuff...DB5/6/7 etc...I havent had issues with either |
I seem to remember your DB6 acquiring a half-inch gap between seat front and rear of tank that wasn't there when you purchased it?
My DB3 "boot lid" atop the fuel cell constantly needed the lock latch shimming to ensure it would actually lock - when I sold it on it had 4 extra washers behind the latch to allow the locking arm to reach it. When I purchased it the latch bolted straight to the cell and locked OK. _________________ Bimota SB6 and Benelli TNT 899S road bikes.
Beta Techno trials iron. Project bikes:- Suzuki V4 500, TS185 cafe racer, XR11/71, Kettle/Katana, TDRGV250, OR50, Gag125,Triumph T595 and a Triumph X75 Hurricane replica.
Too many projects............... |
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v-pilot
Joined: 01 Jun 2014 Posts: 79 Location: Rexford NY
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Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:32 am Post subject: |
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The Acerbis tanks and probably all plastic tanks are made of Nylon 7 (polyheptanamide), which is hygroscopic. I know my aprilia tanks are. Moto Guzzi and Ducati are as well. The ethanol in the gas is hygroscopic and absorbs water from the air. That water can phase separate on the bottom and will be absorbed by the tank causing it to expand. It can also absorb the water from the fuel before phase separation occurs. It is possible for the tank to return to normal or close to it by removing it, empty, to a warm dry place for a time. _________________ 02 aprilia RSVR Mille, 02 aprilia SL1000 Falco
99 bimota db4 tricolor, 98 Moto Guzzi V10 Centauro
97 Suzuki LS650 96 Triumph Trident 900
96 Ducati 900 SS/SP
87 moto Guzzi Le Mans IV se (2x)
78 Moto Guzzi V50
68 benelli 250 65 Ducati 250 |
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Tirefriar
Joined: 18 Dec 2014 Posts: 659 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:37 am Post subject: |
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I had the tank on the YB10 professionally sealed at GTL in North Hollywood. Here's the link: http://www.gastanklining.com/gas-tank-lining-contact.html
I also use Sta-bil in all my bikes. _________________ 1991 Bimota YB10
2001 MV F4
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille CE Replica
2004 BMW R11S BCR
2010 Ducati Streetfighter 1098 S |
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Quadrasuarass
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 Posts: 82 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info V Pilot. My DB1 tank appeared to go 'soft" at the bottom after the fuel blends were changed over here and ethanol plus toluene was introduced in excessive amounts until the legislators got their act together and mandated max limits for both. Not before there were a number of engine bay fires in older cars and bikes as manifold rubbers and the like broke down under the chemical attack.
Your explanation makes sense, the tank went soft at the bottom then became firm again once removed from the bike and dried out. The H2O absorption and subsequent drying out would explain that. |
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Quadrasuarass
Joined: 23 Aug 2013 Posts: 82 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info V Pilot. My DB1 tank appeared to go 'soft" at the bottom after the fuel blends were changed over here and ethanol plus toluene was introduced in excessive amounts until the legislators got their act together and mandated max limits for both. Not before there were a number of engine bay fires in older cars and bikes as manifold rubbers and the like broke down under the chemical attack.
Your explanation makes sense, the tank went soft at the bottom then became firm again once removed from the bike and dried out. The H2O absorption and subsequent drying out would explain that. |
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Desmo_Demon
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 Posts: 240 Location: Easley, SC, USA
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:25 am Post subject: |
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I absolutely HATE ethanol fuels! _________________ Look for my books...
"If I Wrap It Tight Enough"
"The Journals: If I Wrap It Tight Enough"
"Map Junkie: My Motorcycle Journeys" |
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Jonny B Bad
Joined: 05 Dec 2009 Posts: 555 Location: NE London
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Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:01 pm Post subject: Ethanol |
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Seconded _________________ What, Jonny's gone! |
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PaulDB2
Joined: 26 Apr 2014 Posts: 316 Location: Manchester
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:09 am Post subject: |
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Anybody tried this system?
http://www.ethanil.co.uk/ _________________ Bimota DB1, Bimota YB5, Bimota YB6 Exup, Bimota YB9 SR, Ducati NCR Replica, Moto Guzzi 750 S3, Honda CR750 race replica, Seeley-Suzuki TR500 |
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Jonny B Bad
Joined: 05 Dec 2009 Posts: 555 Location: NE London
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Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:07 pm Post subject: Ethanol |
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That kit exploits a sound idea and the.mixing vessel and dispensing tap work well. The difficult bit is buying a 20 ltr Jerry can that will pour petrol into the mixing vessel and into the bike, without sloshing half of it over your Hushpuppies, with a measuring scale that can be clearly seen, at a reasonable cost.
The other thing is that E5 means that the petrol can contain up to 5% ethanol. But the one time I used this kit, I found that in fact the E5 I was decanting had no discernible quantity of ethanol in it! Ruined Hushpuppies & nothing to show for it!
With E5, the logistics of this kit mean I’ll probably stick with a fuel additive for the time being. But if 10% ethanol becomes the norm, I’ll go back to this kit, after having invested in a quality Jerry can. _________________ What, Jonny's gone! |
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Ray916MN
Joined: 29 Apr 2015 Posts: 71 Location: Orono, MN
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Posted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:33 am Post subject: |
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v-pilot wrote: |
The Acerbis tanks and probably all plastic tanks are made of Nylon 7 (polyheptanamide), which is hygroscopic. .... |
I don't believe all plastic tanks are made of the same materials. My experience tells me that tanks which are made to be painted are different than tanks which are color impregnated and not intended to be painted. My experience is my dirtbike tanks don't care what you put in them. I run them with oxy gas all the time and let them sit with oxy gas without a problem. All dirtbikes pretty much run plastic tanks and you don't see dirtbike riders being careful to use non-oxy gas to avoid gas tank problems.
The reason I suspect the Acerbis tanks which are used under tank covers are not susceptible to alcohol the same way my Ducati or Aprilia or painted Bimota tanks are is because, the black Acerbis tanks don't look like the nylon in the other tanks. They look like black dirtbike tanks. If they were all made of the same material, I'd expect them to all look the same inside.
I don't tempt fate with the black Acerbis tanks on my Bimotas mainly because the bikes are carbed and I want the stability of non-oxy gas in these bikes to minimize potential carb problems, but I suspect, |
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