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SB3

 
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Jaguar



Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 268
Location: Albany NY

PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:34 pm    Post subject: SB3 Reply with quote

https://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/d/austin-1980-bimota-sb3-187-with-spare/6867592438.html

Been listed for a LONG time.
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brian



Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 3769
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: SB3 Reply with quote

Jaguar wrote:

Been listed for a LONG time.


I wonder why? The price looks very reasonable
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Tirefriar



Joined: 18 Dec 2014
Posts: 659
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This bike has been up for sale last year.

Jaguar, if you are serious about getting a Bimota this particular bike appears to be the best choice when comparing the two SB8Rs for sale. I say that because this bike has been ride and from the text of the ad it has been thoroughly gone through.

Personally another attraction to this bike is that it was built on the Master's watch.

I agree with Brian, this is not a bad deal at all considering all the extras you are getting and the work that went into this bike.

Seller has some serious hardware in his shed, starting with a GT3...nice!
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2003 Aprilia RSV Mille CE Replica
2004 BMW R11S BCR
2010 Ducati Streetfighter 1098 S
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Jaguar



Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 268
Location: Albany NY

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me I think it is just too old.

Not that I am against a vintage bike.
Owned many 50s-70s bikes. Currently have two in the garage.

But the market has basically collapsed for 70s Japanese bikes.
So there really isnt a good reason to spend that kind of money on that kind of bike. At least in my opinion.

Worth more then a "normal" GS or the like? Sure.
Just not multiple, multiple, multiple times more.
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Tirefriar



Joined: 18 Dec 2014
Posts: 659
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguar wrote:
For me I think it is just too old.

Not that I am against a vintage bike.
Owned many 50s-70s bikes. Currently have two in the garage.

But the market has basically collapsed for 70s Japanese bikes.
So there really isnt a good reason to spend that kind of money on that kind of bike. At least in my opinion.

Worth more then a "normal" GS or the like? Sure.
Just not multiple, multiple, multiple times more.


Jag, you have been looking for the Bimota for some time now. Based on your opinion above, one reason I can think of you still being in "search" mode is that you really need to determine for yourself why you want a Bimota. Comparing a handbill Italian sport bike designed by Tambourini himself to a Japanese mass produced motorcycle is the first indication that Bimota may not be the "droid you are looking for". The SB3 in the advertising could blow into the weeds anything coming out of Japan (and for that fact from many other manufacturers) in its day. Have you seen a Bimota in person, I mean taken a close look at the quality of the components?

When I was selling my SB8R, I had calls asking why the price was so much higher than their Kawasuzuyamonda crotch rocket with smaller engine which could lay waste to the SB8R for fraction of the asking. These callers did not know first thing about Bimota or even Tambourini for that matter nor the impact Bimota has made on the rest of motorcycle world. Eventually the SB8R founds its way into the hands of the owner of this operation https://iconicmotorbikes.com. Needless to say the man knew exactly what he was looking at and realized that there is really no comparison.
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1991 Bimota YB10
2001 MV F4
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille CE Replica
2004 BMW R11S BCR
2010 Ducati Streetfighter 1098 S
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Jaguar



Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 268
Location: Albany NY

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might be "new" to looking to buy a Bimota, but I am not new to hand built or rare bikes.

Owned, found, sold, restored and messed around with a few.

I did not compare the GS directly to the SB3, but the fact is that values are tied together in some ways. My comment was that the asking price of this bike is too much in my opinion. And so far it seems the market feels that way too. At the very least the person with both the desire to own, and the funds has not decided to make a deal.

I am not a fan of just buying "because it is there".
Yes I would like to add a Bimota to my garage, but not going to be rushed or forced into buying the wrong bike, or the right bike at the wrong price simply because it is there at a moment.
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Ray916MN



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Orono, MN

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own a '79 Suzuki GS1000S. The market for these is in the $10-15K range. I own a Bimota KB3. The market for these is around the same as the market for an SB3, which is pretty much what the CL seller is asking. The market thinks the GS, a fairing, paint job and some other details is worth as much as a hand built custom frame and body with better suspension and brakes Bimota. A bike which weighs 50+ lbs less, has a 5" shorter wheelbase and which will leave the Suzuki for dead on a twisty road. The market thinks the natural comparison to the KB3, a KZ1000R is worth $18K-25K and all the things the KB3 has over the GS apply to the ELR.

I think the market doesn't have a clue when it comes to Bimotas and following the clueless is a fool errand.
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Gammaboy



Joined: 25 Feb 2016
Posts: 188
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray916MN wrote:
The market thinks the GS, a fairing, paint job and some other details is worth as much as a hand built custom frame and body with better suspension and brakes Bimota. A bike which weighs 50+ lbs less, has a 5" shorter wheelbase and which will leave the Suzuki for dead on a twisty road. The market thinks the natural comparison to the KB3, a KZ1000R is worth $18K-25K and all the things the KB3 has over the GS apply to the ELR.

I think the market doesn't have a clue when it comes to Bimotas and following the clueless is a fool errand.


People aren't buying the GS/GSX/KZs to ride, they're buying them for god knows why - drove me up the wall when I was selling my Katana - upgraded bike that was much better to ride than the stocker, and it was worth ~2/3rd of the price of a rivet counter spec bike...
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Jaguar



Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 268
Location: Albany NY

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray916MN wrote:
I own a '79 Suzuki GS1000S. The market for these is in the $10-15K range. I own a Bimota KB3. The market for these is around the same as the market for an SB3, which is pretty much what the CL seller is asking. The market thinks the GS, a fairing, paint job and some other details is worth as much as a hand built custom frame and body with better suspension and brakes Bimota. A bike which weighs 50+ lbs less, has a 5" shorter wheelbase and which will leave the Suzuki for dead on a twisty road. The market thinks the natural comparison to the KB3, a KZ1000R is worth $18K-25K and all the things the KB3 has over the GS apply to the ELR.

I think the market doesn't have a clue when it comes to Bimotas and following the clueless is a fool errand.


Will say I know the Honda market much better then the Suzuki, but as a whole the best prices for 70s Japanese bikes are well behind us.
Have watched Wes Cooley bikes linger with $9k asks. And "normal" clean GS1000s get bids far lower. Will there be shootings stars in the market? Sure will. Some times two guys "have to have it", or the bikes are PERFECT, not restored, not modified, just perfect. Those always sell for good money.

Will agree that most do not know how to think about the Bimotas.
But how things "should be" doesnt really matter vs how things actually are.
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Ray916MN



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Orono, MN

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguar wrote:


Will say I know the Honda market much better then the Suzuki, but as a whole the best prices for 70s Japanese bikes are well behind us.
Have watched Wes Cooley bikes linger with $9k asks. And "normal" clean GS1000s get bids far lower. Will there be shootings stars in the market? Sure will. Some times two guys "have to have it", or the bikes are PERFECT, not restored, not modified, just perfect. Those always sell for good money.

Will agree that most do not know how to think about the Bimotas.
But how things "should be" doesnt really matter vs how things actually are.


So let's say you're right about the current market. What price in your opinion is the right price for the SB3 that's for sale?
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Ray916MN



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Orono, MN

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguar wrote:


Will say I know the Honda market much better then the Suzuki, but as a whole the best prices for 70s Japanese bikes are well behind us.
Have watched Wes Cooley bikes linger with $9k asks. And "normal" clean GS1000s get bids far lower. Will there be shootings stars in the market? Sure will. Some times two guys "have to have it", or the bikes are PERFECT, not restored, not modified, just perfect. Those always sell for good money.

Will agree that most do not know how to think about the Bimotas.
But how things "should be" doesnt really matter vs how things actually are.


So let's say you're right about the current market. What price in your opinion is the right price for the SB3 that's for sale? Why is the market for 70s Japanese bikes the right benchmark for a bike made in Italy? Clearly the SB3 is not priced at multiples and multiples of a Cooley. Why should base bikes like GS1000Es be the benchmark for an SB3 and not a GS1000S?
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Jaguar



Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 268
Location: Albany NY

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray916MN wrote:
Jaguar wrote:


Will say I know the Honda market much better then the Suzuki, but as a whole the best prices for 70s Japanese bikes are well behind us.
Have watched Wes Cooley bikes linger with $9k asks. And "normal" clean GS1000s get bids far lower. Will there be shootings stars in the market? Sure will. Some times two guys "have to have it", or the bikes are PERFECT, not restored, not modified, just perfect. Those always sell for good money.

Will agree that most do not know how to think about the Bimotas.
But how things "should be" doesnt really matter vs how things actually are.


So let's say you're right about the current market. What price in your opinion is the right price for the SB3 that's for sale? Why is the market for 70s Japanese bikes the right benchmark for a bike made in Italy? Clearly the SB3 is not priced at multiples and multiples of a Cooley. Why should base bikes like GS1000Es be the benchmark for an SB3 and not a GS1000S?


Generally these conversations are fun and interesting. If that is not the case here, then I am sorry for upsetting you. There is nothing I am saying that is personal or an attack.

There are two different things to talk about. The first is the "value" to the market, and the other is the value to the individual. For this bike I would assume that the value to the market is higher then the value to me in particularly. There is nothing wrong with that.

I do stand by the statement that the best years/prices for 70s Japanese bikes are behind us. And I also do believe that this will effect bikes like the Bimota. It has been my experience that there is a hard line at $10,000 that many are either unwilling or unable to cross. While it is just my opinion, I would struggle to see this specific SB3 get bids over $10,000 at an open auction/sale. I personally would not be a bidder as I would want do look at other models for that price range. That is what it is.

Craigslist is not a great outlet for these kinds of bikes. Unsure if the seller has listed with other venues.

The comparison to the 70s Japanese market seems correct to me based on appeal. I feel there are more Suzuki/Kawi/Honda collectors that would want to add a Japanese powered Bimota to their garage as a "halo" bike, then there are guys that are only collecting Bimota. Also I think that many that are collecting Italian or other euro bikes, would be more interested in those bikes with a corresponding engine (not a Japanese bike).



[/i]
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Ray916MN



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Orono, MN

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguar wrote:


Generally these conversations are fun and interesting. If that is not the case here, then I am sorry for upsetting you. There is nothing I am saying that is personal or an attack.

There are two different things to talk about. The first is the "value" to the market, and the other is the value to the individual. For this bike I would assume that the value to the market is higher then the value to me in particularly. There is nothing wrong with that.

I do stand by the statement that the best years/prices for 70s Japanese bikes are behind us. And I also do believe that this will effect bikes like the Bimota. It has been my experience that there is a hard line at $10,000 that many are either unwilling or unable to cross. While it is just my opinion, I would struggle to see this specific SB3 get bids over $10,000 at an open auction/sale. I personally would not be a bidder as I would want do look at other models for that price range. That is what it is.

Craigslist is not a great outlet for these kinds of bikes. Unsure if the seller has listed with other venues.

The comparison to the 70s Japanese market seems correct to me based on appeal. I feel there are more Suzuki/Kawi/Honda collectors that would want to add a Japanese powered Bimota to their garage as a "halo" bike, then there are guys that are only collecting Bimota. Also I think that many that are collecting Italian or other euro bikes, would be more interested in those bikes with a corresponding engine (not a Japanese bike).

[/i]


Very interesting response. Exactly what I was looking for. Nothing personal about this back and forth at all for me.

I see Bimota as a European bike regardless of engine so it gets benchmarked more against other European bikes and brands for the most part. I get what you're saying about 70s Japanese bikes and the $10K threshold, but since I see Bimotas as European I've never considered a $10K threshold to apply. Bimota didn't use a European engine (Ducati) till the mid 80s. There definitely isn't a $10K threshold on collectible European bikes of any age that I'm aware of.

If the market for Bimotas is dominated by people who see it the way I do and you want a Bimota, what Bimota do you think you're like to end up with? Are you a Japanese collector looking for a halo bike?
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Jaguar



Joined: 15 Sep 2017
Posts: 268
Location: Albany NY

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray916MN wrote:
Jaguar wrote:


Generally these conversations are fun and interesting. If that is not the case here, then I am sorry for upsetting you. There is nothing I am saying that is personal or an attack.

There are two different things to talk about. The first is the "value" to the market, and the other is the value to the individual. For this bike I would assume that the value to the market is higher then the value to me in particularly. There is nothing wrong with that.

I do stand by the statement that the best years/prices for 70s Japanese bikes are behind us. And I also do believe that this will effect bikes like the Bimota. It has been my experience that there is a hard line at $10,000 that many are either unwilling or unable to cross. While it is just my opinion, I would struggle to see this specific SB3 get bids over $10,000 at an open auction/sale. I personally would not be a bidder as I would want do look at other models for that price range. That is what it is.

Craigslist is not a great outlet for these kinds of bikes. Unsure if the seller has listed with other venues.

The comparison to the 70s Japanese market seems correct to me based on appeal. I feel there are more Suzuki/Kawi/Honda collectors that would want to add a Japanese powered Bimota to their garage as a "halo" bike, then there are guys that are only collecting Bimota. Also I think that many that are collecting Italian or other euro bikes, would be more interested in those bikes with a corresponding engine (not a Japanese bike).

[/i]


Very interesting response. Exactly what I was looking for. Nothing personal about this back and forth at all for me.

I see Bimota as a European bike regardless of engine so it gets benchmarked more against other European bikes and brands for the most part. I get what you're saying about 70s Japanese bikes and the $10K threshold, but since I see Bimotas as European I've never considered a $10K threshold to apply. Bimota didn't use a European engine (Ducati) till the mid 80s. There definitely isn't a $10K threshold on collectible European bikes of any age that I'm aware of.

If the market for Bimotas is dominated by people who see it the way I do and you want a Bimota, what Bimota do you think you're like to end up with? Are you a Japanese collector looking for a halo bike?




Good to hear.
I agree that people seem to be more willing to pay "big" money for the Euro stuff.

My path is mildly interesting, but I have found not all that unique.
Im 34, but been messing with old bikes for years. It started with me wanting a motorcycle, but could not afford a new one, nor did modern stuff at the time really appeal to me. I also very much enjoy older stuff as I like working and wrenching on stuff. The other part is I find it fun to show up on something that others might not be able to own, or deal with. At the time I really wanted a Norton, or Ducati, but those were well out of the price range I could work with. So I was pushed to SOHC CB750s. They were cheap, performed will and there were period correct performance parts everywhere for them. I grew to love them and other Japanese bikes. In my search for performance and fun I ended up getting into old race bikes and period performance parts. Collected a few special framed bikes (Rickman, Seeley, Yetman). Those became the "halo" bikes for me. I was, and still do casually search for a HB3. I viewed it as a special framed bike very much like my Seeley. Most of my "collection" was sold off to buy a house with my wife. Now I am back on the hunt for things to fill the garage back up with and enjoy.

For me I do want a Bimota because I want a Bimota. But can not help but tie that desire to the engine base.
If a HB2/3 popped up, I would be fairly interested. I know those motors and probably still have some parts around. But those are fairly rare in the states, so not holding my breath.
The YB series appeals to me as real race bikes. Also rather good looking. Have gotten close to a YB7 deal, but so far nothing finalized.
Would really LOVE a DB1. I actually have one of the mini models in my living room. One would go great next to my daily ride, a Ducati Monster S4.
A Tesi would just be cool for being so crazy. Seems SO many of them are living super boring lives sitting in offices and man caves. When they come up to market people want to value this, and not be opened to how much work a bike that sat for 20 years really needs to still be a motorcycle.
Leaves the SB stuff. These really seem so different to me. Kind of vintage, kind of modern, kind of race bike, kind of "exotic" mix of materials. My opinion is that the 90s sports bikes in general are undervalued.
Now I am just rambling....
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